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	<title>Comments for Sabermetrics: The Dissertation!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?feed=comments-rss2" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog</link>
	<description>A blog about Bob Ngo's dissertation on the Sabermetric movement in American Baseball</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:27:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Casting a Wider Net by Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=15&#038;cpage=1#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=15#comment-138</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Bob!

You interviewed me about two years ago; and I was just surfing around in Google looking for a sabermetric name or two I had corresponded with in the past.

Saw you name &amp; the date looked current. Hope all progresses well for you.

Happy holidays!

TC, 12/08]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Bob!</p>
<p>You interviewed me about two years ago; and I was just surfing around in Google looking for a sabermetric name or two I had corresponded with in the past.</p>
<p>Saw you name &amp; the date looked current. Hope all progresses well for you.</p>
<p>Happy holidays!</p>
<p>TC, 12/08</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Bill James Conundrum by Pizza Cutter</title>
		<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=77&#038;cpage=1#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator>Pizza Cutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 03:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=77#comment-130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe the best comparison for James would be the status of Newton among physicists.  Newton created the field and formalized some of the basic laws.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the best comparison for James would be the status of Newton among physicists.  Newton created the field and formalized some of the basic laws.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Bill James Conundrum by Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=77&#038;cpage=1#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 02:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=77#comment-129</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, this is what I&#039;m talking about.  He is a charismatic figure, but I think it is problematic to mythologize him since the basis of the movement is not Bill James&#039; heroism, but rather rational science.  Perhaps you&#039;re right, problematic is not the right word.  I&#039;m just trying to figure out how mytholigizing James fits into the overall ethos of rational scientific thought.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, this is what I&#8217;m talking about.  He is a charismatic figure, but I think it is problematic to mythologize him since the basis of the movement is not Bill James&#8217; heroism, but rather rational science.  Perhaps you&#8217;re right, problematic is not the right word.  I&#8217;m just trying to figure out how mytholigizing James fits into the overall ethos of rational scientific thought.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Bill James Conundrum by Erik</title>
		<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=77&#038;cpage=1#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=77#comment-128</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s interesting that you&#039;re using myth as the frame for understanding James&#039; impact on the sabermetrics movement, but what about charisma?

Wouldn&#039;t Weber have something to say here?  And bringing it up to the present, there&#039;s some literature on new social movements (and old school movements too) about charismatic leadership in an insurgency.

If baseball is the institution (or baseball metrics is the institution), then isn&#039;t sabermetrics an insurgency led by a charismatic leader?

Could you write a dissertation about the Democratic Party insurgency (Democratic wing of the Democratic party) in the 2004 presidential election without talking about Howard Dean?  Can you understand the insurgency in SEIU without considering Andy Stern?  Or look at insurgencies in corporations without looking at charismatic leaders (Steve Jobs, Lee Iacocca)?

I guess I&#039;m just trying to see how your work relates to some of the sociological theory about insurgencies within institutions, and insurgencies within movements.  You might be able to compare a figure like James with some similar figures in other fields.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s interesting that you&#8217;re using myth as the frame for understanding James&#8217; impact on the sabermetrics movement, but what about charisma?</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t Weber have something to say here?  And bringing it up to the present, there&#8217;s some literature on new social movements (and old school movements too) about charismatic leadership in an insurgency.</p>
<p>If baseball is the institution (or baseball metrics is the institution), then isn&#8217;t sabermetrics an insurgency led by a charismatic leader?</p>
<p>Could you write a dissertation about the Democratic Party insurgency (Democratic wing of the Democratic party) in the 2004 presidential election without talking about Howard Dean?  Can you understand the insurgency in SEIU without considering Andy Stern?  Or look at insurgencies in corporations without looking at charismatic leaders (Steve Jobs, Lee Iacocca)?</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m just trying to see how your work relates to some of the sociological theory about insurgencies within institutions, and insurgencies within movements.  You might be able to compare a figure like James with some similar figures in other fields.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Getting Personal by Pizza Cutter</title>
		<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=72&#038;cpage=1#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>Pizza Cutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=72#comment-126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bob, it sounds like you might have some symptoms of depression.  Obviously, I don&#039;t know the whole story, but that might be something to look into.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, it sounds like you might have some symptoms of depression.  Obviously, I don&#8217;t know the whole story, but that might be something to look into.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Convergence and Roger Clemens by Erik</title>
		<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=70&#038;cpage=1#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=70#comment-124</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, so unfortunately for Clemens, all talk of the statistical proof that he never used PED&#039;s has gone out the window during his testimony before the House Oversight Committee.

I really don&#039;t understand the argument that there&#039;s &quot;nothing sabermetricians can do&quot; about this.  I think it&#039;s clear -- when players are proven to have used PED&#039;s, you place an asterisk next to their numbers, deny them any all-time records, and remove their stats from analyses (like averages across players, etc.).

What&#039;s wrong with that?  Whether PED&#039;s actually have a measurable, constant performance boost isn&#039;t the issue.  The issue is that they&#039;re illegal, and every effort should be made to deny users of these PED&#039;s recognition in any form of knowledge about their sports.

If, as Clemens has done, players dispute the claims that they&#039;ve used PED&#039;s, fine -- wait for the results to play out.  (I think claiming that &quot;my wife&quot; used PED&#039;s but Clemens didn&#039;t is a particularly hilarious lie, and we&#039;re seeing the beginning of the end for the Rocket, but whatever -- wait for all the evidence.)  After a player admits or is proven to have used PED&#039;s, take his numbers off the books.  It&#039;s simple.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, so unfortunately for Clemens, all talk of the statistical proof that he never used PED&#8217;s has gone out the window during his testimony before the House Oversight Committee.</p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t understand the argument that there&#8217;s &#8220;nothing sabermetricians can do&#8221; about this.  I think it&#8217;s clear &#8212; when players are proven to have used PED&#8217;s, you place an asterisk next to their numbers, deny them any all-time records, and remove their stats from analyses (like averages across players, etc.).</p>
<p>What&#8217;s wrong with that?  Whether PED&#8217;s actually have a measurable, constant performance boost isn&#8217;t the issue.  The issue is that they&#8217;re illegal, and every effort should be made to deny users of these PED&#8217;s recognition in any form of knowledge about their sports.</p>
<p>If, as Clemens has done, players dispute the claims that they&#8217;ve used PED&#8217;s, fine &#8212; wait for the results to play out.  (I think claiming that &#8220;my wife&#8221; used PED&#8217;s but Clemens didn&#8217;t is a particularly hilarious lie, and we&#8217;re seeing the beginning of the end for the Rocket, but whatever &#8212; wait for all the evidence.)  After a player admits or is proven to have used PED&#8217;s, take his numbers off the books.  It&#8217;s simple.</p>
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		<title>Comment on SABR Conference &#8211; Day 1 by kb</title>
		<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=39&#038;cpage=1#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>kb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=39#comment-38</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[love the photo]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>love the photo</p>
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		<title>Comment on SABR Convention Day 1 Wrap Up by Erik</title>
		<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=43&#038;cpage=1#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 05:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=43#comment-37</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t believe you passed up the notorious St. Louis Hooters.

Great photos, man -- keep them coming.  Also, given that guy&#039;s presentation, I feel more comfortable than ever saying that the DH is a terrible idea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe you passed up the notorious St. Louis Hooters.</p>
<p>Great photos, man &#8212; keep them coming.  Also, given that guy&#8217;s presentation, I feel more comfortable than ever saying that the DH is a terrible idea.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Interviews &#8211; Round 1 by Pizza Cutter</title>
		<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=38&#038;cpage=1#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Pizza Cutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=38#comment-35</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One subtle question to add might be: &quot;Most of the people whom I have contacted or interviewed for this project are men.  Why do you think that is?&quot;  It runs the risk of being answered with &quot;Well, the majority of baseball fans are men.&quot;  But it might tap into what you&#039;re looking for a little better.

Many of us Sabermetricians grew up as nerds who weren&#039;t very good at the physical side of playing the game and we were stereotyped as effeminate and gay because of it.  Speaking for myself, it&#039;s a part of my life that brought a lot of teasing and bullying.  Not exactly the best part of my life and not the first thing I want to bring up with someone whom I barely know.  The issue is probably there, but I&#039;m guessing that unless you ask for it specifically, it&#039;s not going to come up.

Hope the interviews are going well.  You were a little nervous, but as someone who has done more interviews than I care to mention, you did just fine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One subtle question to add might be: &#8220;Most of the people whom I have contacted or interviewed for this project are men.  Why do you think that is?&#8221;  It runs the risk of being answered with &#8220;Well, the majority of baseball fans are men.&#8221;  But it might tap into what you&#8217;re looking for a little better.</p>
<p>Many of us Sabermetricians grew up as nerds who weren&#8217;t very good at the physical side of playing the game and we were stereotyped as effeminate and gay because of it.  Speaking for myself, it&#8217;s a part of my life that brought a lot of teasing and bullying.  Not exactly the best part of my life and not the first thing I want to bring up with someone whom I barely know.  The issue is probably there, but I&#8217;m guessing that unless you ask for it specifically, it&#8217;s not going to come up.</p>
<p>Hope the interviews are going well.  You were a little nervous, but as someone who has done more interviews than I care to mention, you did just fine.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Interviews &#8211; Round 1 by Chris J.</title>
		<link>http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=38&#038;cpage=1#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobngo.com/research/blog/?p=38#comment-33</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Or you could ask something like, Do you ever have your masculinity called into question for engaging in sabermetrics? Or -  Is your credibility ever questioned for looking at baseball from this perspective?  If so, why do people question your credibilty to speak on these issues?  

I dunno, maybe you can find a quote from some media commentator of ex-joke speaking of sabermeticals as pencil-necked geeks or nerds, or something more manliness questioning, read the bit to the subject, and ask them to respond.  I dunno.  I&#039;m just spitballin&#039; here.

From my own experience, your committee person is right.  I&#039;ve never thought of mansculinity in question with this.  Doesn&#039;t mean it isn&#039;t there necessarily, but it might not be anything conscious.  In which case you might have to look for underlying implicit patterns.  Good luck with that one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or you could ask something like, Do you ever have your masculinity called into question for engaging in sabermetrics? Or &#8211;  Is your credibility ever questioned for looking at baseball from this perspective?  If so, why do people question your credibilty to speak on these issues?  </p>
<p>I dunno, maybe you can find a quote from some media commentator of ex-joke speaking of sabermeticals as pencil-necked geeks or nerds, or something more manliness questioning, read the bit to the subject, and ask them to respond.  I dunno.  I&#8217;m just spitballin&#8217; here.</p>
<p>From my own experience, your committee person is right.  I&#8217;ve never thought of mansculinity in question with this.  Doesn&#8217;t mean it isn&#8217;t there necessarily, but it might not be anything conscious.  In which case you might have to look for underlying implicit patterns.  Good luck with that one.</p>
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